makeste: (wait what)
makeste ([personal profile] makeste) wrote2009-08-01 01:28 pm

KHR has officially become a science-fiction manga.

Leaving soon to visit my aunt and cousins, but the translation for KHR 252 finally came out, so let's see how much rambling I can accomplish first.



1.
"Here... your glasses..."

LOL at Gokudera's awkward attempt to be helpful. (He probably feels guilty; I wouldn't blame him.) I would be exactly the same in that kind of situation, orz. WHAT TO DO WHAT TO DO... AHH HERE, UH, DO YOU WANT YOUR GLASSES? XDD HE'S TRYING.


2.
"If it meant defeating Byakuran-san, I would die gladly!!"

Bawwww I love Irie so much. So determined. ;_; BUT ALL THE SAME, I'D RATHER YOU STAYED ALIVE.


3.
Target 252: The Phalaenopsis Paradox

And the wtfery begins. This is the first time I've ever needed the aid of a dictionary to understand KHR. XD


4.
"Fighting to get back to our own time is one thing, but all this stuff about coming to this time and fighting to deal with the issues this world is facing or whatever... I'm still not really feeling it..."

lol what kind of main characters are these. XD "I know you kinda wanted us to save the world and all, but you know, I'm not really feeling it." Sometimes my love for this manga just explodes at random; this is one of those times. Because it's so the opposite of what you usually see in shounen manga; normally the heroes would be all over that "save the world!!" stuff. But these guys are just kind of overwhelmed by the thought; it's a lot more realistic, I think.

Incidentally, I'm also glad Amano gave some sort of explanation for Irie having not revealed all of this MUCH, MUCH EARLIER. Even if it was kind of a half-assed explanation. :P "Perhaps I was just selfishly believing that you would simply understand without my having to do so..." Sounds kind of flimsy to me, but I'll take it for now. At least you finally got around to doing your explaining, unlike SOME PEOPLE. YAMAMOTO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

5.
"Huh?! Lambo... he's involved in this?!"

brb loling forever at Tsuna's expression in this panel. XD OF COURSE HE'S INVOLVED, TSUNA. I have a feeling that if you dig deep enough, Lambo's probably at the core of everything. I mean, he's the last person you'd ever suspect! IT'S THE PERFECT CRIME.

Also, I'm so glad Amano finally explained how Shouichi started time traveling; I've been speculating about it for ages. So nice to finally get some clarification. (Though, what the fuck was the Bovino family thinking including the TYL bazooka shells in their gift box?? SOMEONE SCREWED UP OVER THERE.)


6. Ahahaha what Shou wanted to be a musician? (HE AND GOKUDERA JUST KEEP ON GETTING MORE SIMILAR.) Someone get this kid a character song already. After hearing that, I think he's earned it.


7. RYOHEI YOU'RE A MORON SOMETIMES XD but I'm glad you healed Irie. (And since when did Bianchi have healing powers? I wish we'd gotten to see a little of her healing Spanner, not the least because I have a feeling the interaction between those two characters would have been win.)


8.
"I burned all of my school textbooks... and wrote on my careers guidance form 'If I can't become a musician, I'd rather die!!'"

Shouichi you are rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters ever. XDDDDD (LOOK AT HIS HAPPY DERPY FACE WHEN HE SAYS IT, TOO. I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING OMG.)


9. Byakuran creeps me out so fucking much on page eleven I can't even find the words. Just... holy shit.


10. And finally, the wtf revelation of the arc:

"But Byakuran-san has the power to share all of his knowledge and thoughts... amongst all of his selves from the same point in time across the multitude of parallel worlds."

...seriously, Amano's really outdone herself this time.

This is actually a really cool concept to me, and I've been trying to work it out ever since I first read the spoilers the other day. So the reason why Byakuran is so terrible is because he has all the knowledge one can get from an infinite number of experiences in an infinite number of parallel worlds. Now, I can see where this could potentially help a guy out quite a lot. But I think that so far, this explanation raises more questions than it answers. For example:

  • Irie says that his meeting Byakuran in the future is what "awakened" this power, but does that mean that Byakuran could only use it from that point on, then? That would have been... a little under a year ago according to the current timeline, wouldn't it? (This is assuming that Irie's first encounter with Lambo happened early in the Daily Life arc, about a year before the Vongola kids traveled ten years into the future. There's an official timeline for this shit somewhere but I can't remember it right now. XD) So does that mean that before that point, Byakuran was just a normal guy? Because if that's the case, he rose to power astonishingly fast once that ability got awakened. (Is this making any sense? I'm confusing myself.)

  • Okay, now it would be one thing if Byakuran's ability enabled him to see all of the future possibilities in all the different parallel universes. But how exactly does knowing what's already happened or what's currently happening in the different universes give him enough knowledge to be as much of a dick as he's been? I guess it could still be handy, but then you also have to consider:

  • How much knowledge can a person's mind absorb before it completely overloads? Maybe that's why the guy ended up being a villain. XD

  • And as far as I can tell, this still doesn't explain how Byakuran healed Genkishi, stopped Mukuro from body-swapping, potentially brought Rasiel back to life, and so forth. I think further explanation is still required. Or am I missing something?



Anyway, I gotta run, but I'm still trying to sort all of this out in my head. But one thing's for sure--Amano has definitely outdone herself in the mindfuck department. XD

[identity profile] escherichiacola.livejournal.com 2009-08-01 06:46 pm (UTC)(link)
That determination, like burning his textbooks and defeating Byakuran, is something I'd never expect from his introduction as an unassertive nerd.

[identity profile] makeste.livejournal.com 2009-08-02 04:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I know! His character just keeps evolving, from a timid little nerd to a major villain to an undercover good guy to a determined-to-save-the-world-no-matter-what! tragic hero-type. He keeps getting cooler. :P

[identity profile] maenam.livejournal.com 2009-08-01 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)

SO STUFF. LOVE THIS CHAPTER.

+ As far as knowing the possibilities, all he has to do with the knowledge of each universe is make sure the mistakes that would cause him to fall don't happen. That's the most he can do with it, but that makes it a very powerful weapon on one's side.

What confuses me is why when they traveled to the future now, it doesn't look nearly as fucked up in Japan as the rest of the world? (His Shou-chan did a little... convincing.)

+ The human brain's storage process is not yet known. Contrary to belief, we use 100% of our brain in our lifetime (Rumor says 10%, which is inaccurate) however the part of the brain of our brain that handles information and memory is a very foggy area. Psychologist barely know how the brain has the ability to repress memory, let alone someone being able to shove thousands of memories in.

On top of that, despite there being parallel universes, there have to be some similarities to each universe. Sometimes what you do, though a different choice, has the same outcome, for example. It can possibly change the lives of others around you but Byakuran only has to focus on himself.

+ It does explain it. If Byakuran can see into the future, he can also see the technology that could be made if someone else's parallel self has the concept figured out. So a medicine for a rare disease can exist in one future, but not the other.

THAT WAS FUN. 8D

[identity profile] maenam.livejournal.com 2009-08-01 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, this is [livejournal.com profile] mikenno. HAY

[identity profile] maenam.livejournal.com 2009-08-01 09:38 pm (UTC)(link)
+ It does explain it. If Byakuran can see into the futureOTHER WORLDS, he can also see the technology that could be made if someone else's parallel self has the concept figured out. So a medicine for a rare disease can exist in one futureworld, but not the other.

Byakuran is apparently miss Cleo.

[identity profile] makeste.livejournal.com 2009-08-02 05:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, I think I'm starting to get this now. For some reason, I was operating under the assumption that even if the universes were all different, the timelines in those universes would more or less be the same; therefore, if something happened to cause his downfall in one world, he wouldn't have a chance to use that knowledge to avoid that fate in the others, because it would already be too late. But now that I think about it, considering that we're talking about an infinite number of worlds, who says that the same events have to happen at the same time in each? A failed meeting could have taken place a day or so earlier in one world, for example (for any number of reasons; scheduling conflicts, the weather, etc.), so he wouldn't actually need to be able to see the future to know how to avoid those mistakes.

+ It does explain it. If Byakuran can see into the futureOTHER WORLDS, he can also see the technology that could be made if someone else's parallel self has the concept figured out. So a medicine for a rare disease can exist in one futureworld, but not the other.

This helps me to understand it better too; thanks. Very good point, and it goes along with what the manga said as well.

+ The human brain's storage process is not yet known. Contrary to belief, we use 100% of our brain in our lifetime (Rumor says 10%, which is inaccurate) however the part of the brain of our brain that handles information and memory is a very foggy area. Psychologist barely know how the brain has the ability to repress memory, let alone someone being able to shove thousands of memories in.

On top of that, despite there being parallel universes, there have to be some similarities to each universe. Sometimes what you do, though a different choice, has the same outcome, for example. It can possibly change the lives of others around you but Byakuran only has to focus on himself.


I'm still not quite convinced on this one. The way I see it, it's not so much the amount of mental input that he has to deal with; it's that so much of it would be totally contradictory. According to the manga, basically every time there is the possibility of more than one outcome, the universe splits off accordingly. So in theory, even something as simple as his choosing to take the stairs instead of the elevator would create a new world. What with there being countless worlds, he could be in a million different situations all at once. And if he really is existing in all of these worlds simultaneously, I just can't imagine how he could maintain his sanity for more than a few minutes, let alone a year. (That's not even getting into the more extreme universe variations--universes where he gets killed or injured, for example. Does he experience that as well?)

The only way I can see it working is if he either has an extraordinarily firm grasp on his own universe and knows how to keep the others somewhat muted, or if the ability comes with some sort of mental filter so that only the important stuff comes through. And both options sort of strike me as kind of plot devicey, but on the other hand, I can see where it'd be necessary in order to make Byakuran a writable character, so I guess I can forgive Amano for that. :P

What confuses me is why when they traveled to the future now, it doesn't look nearly as fucked up in Japan as the rest of the world? (His Shou-chan did a little... convincing.)

I can take a crack at this one. I think we may finally be seeing the reason why (as Reborn said so long ago) the bazooka only sent them nine years and ten months into the future. They've been in the future for a couple months by this point, so maybe this Choice battle is the turning point in the timeline; if they win, Byakuran's war is prevented; if they lose, it'll end up being the same as all of those futures that little!Shou kept traveling to. (And it could also be that, as you said, Shouichi did what he could to delay the war in this particular timeline, and maybe not just in Japan.)

[identity profile] mikenno.livejournal.com 2009-08-03 05:20 am (UTC)(link)
Also on that last bit, with the training and whatnot for the two months, my wife pointed something out last night about Shouichi's statement on why they can only beat Byakuran in that time frame, too. (Time frame being the battle turning point, as you said.)

Because Byakuran can communicate, so to speak, with all his parallel selves, every time Shouichi went back to the past and changed something, his future self would already know he changed it because he could communicate with the other world and have the information handy to change it to his advantage.

However if the Vongole from the past came into the future and plotted and ployed and trained during Byakuran's "present", he has no way of knowing the outcomes via the parallel worlds. If they trained and tried to defeat him in the past, he'd be prepared for that already because he would know it since they'd be training in the past, as fuck confusing as it sounds.

MAN. SO COOL.

[identity profile] makeste.livejournal.com 2009-08-03 04:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, it does seem to tie in to that whole "now or never" thing.

Because Byakuran can communicate, so to speak, with all his parallel selves, every time Shouichi went back to the past and changed something, his future self would already know he changed it because he could communicate with the other world and have the information handy to change it to his advantage.

However if the Vongole from the past came into the future and plotted and ployed and trained during Byakuran's "present", he has no way of knowing the outcomes via the parallel worlds. If they trained and tried to defeat him in the past, he'd be prepared for that already because he would know it since they'd be training in the past, as fuck confusing as it sounds.


Aaah! The weirdest fucking thing about this whole arc--the fact that for some reason, they brought the inexperienced TYB!Vongola to fight Byakuran instead of just taking the rings from the past and having the TYL!Vongola fight--suddenly makes sense!! Of course. lol why didn't I see that before. <3

[identity profile] caddles.livejournal.com 2009-08-01 11:44 pm (UTC)(link)
My brain hurts too much for this chapter. KHR is officially smarter than me. OTL

[identity profile] makeste.livejournal.com 2009-08-02 05:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Lol, my brain hurts too, but I'm loving it. I don't know, I just thrive on this crazy plot stuff. XD

[identity profile] cobizah.livejournal.com 2009-08-03 11:20 am (UTC)(link)
DAMN I'm glad Irie's still alive! Yay!!! <3

But holy crap! I totally agree with you about Byakuran - he's freaking terrifying! When he flips out and his power awakens.... I'm trying very hard not to think about how his power works. I have a feeling it will never make sense orz.

You think Gokudera and Irie are similar?? I mean, they're a bit nerdy, but...? XD

And random thought on Bianchi having healing powers: her brother has Sun Flame too, so maybe she does, and she can use it???

[identity profile] makeste.livejournal.com 2009-08-03 04:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I KNOW, I'M SO RELIEVED. |D I would have thrown a fit if he died now.

Heh, I recommend reading a few of [livejournal.com profile] mikenno's posts above--she really helped me to understand it a little more, anyway. XD (Though it's still completely flippin' nuts. And people say the twists on LOST are hard to understand. XDD)

Well, part of my reasons for thinking of Gokudera and Irie as being similar are [livejournal.com profile] half_sleeping's fault--she was pointing out similarities via her awesome fic before any of us even know that Shou was actually good, let alone the rest of this stuff. But aside from that, they're both nerds, both in the mafia, both particularly determined and stubborn (even before this chapter, we knew that much about Irie; just the fact that he played such a dangerous undercover game with Byakuran for so long all for the sake of helping the Vongola kids says an awful lot), both have domineering older sisters (XD), both wear glasses, and apparently both had musical aspirations at one point. So it's nothing immediately obvious, but yeah, I think the similarities are there.

Ooh, nice catch--wave energies do supposedly run in the family, so if Dera can use more than one, maybe Bianchi can as well. (It might even help explain her apparent immunity to her own poison cooking. XD) Now I'm even more curious.

[identity profile] cobizah.livejournal.com 2009-08-05 02:27 am (UTC)(link)
Haha, I am now converted to the similarities. I'll read the fic when I get time, it's cool geting recommendation for good ones! Domineering older sisters lol! Thanks for the links, will read Mikenno's interpretation and it will hopefully clear up some of the WTF orz. I wonder what will happen now...? I'm assuming there wil be more than one round of chance? It was almost a cop-out how Shouichi was fine after that big nooooo and cliffhanger in chapter 251....

[identity profile] makeste.livejournal.com 2009-08-06 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Once you notice, it's kind of difficult to unsee. XD

Heh, it seems like the new chapter will explain things a little more when it comes out, so that ought to help too. It's weird; sometimes I can't tell whether Amano wants us to turn our brains on or off when reading this manga. :P